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dnf vs packagekit updates: still unclear

asked 2016-05-17 03:01:43 -0500

thingummybob gravatar image

Further to earlier help on this forum, I've been happily sticking to using terminal and dnf to update. I understood that gnome packagekit uses a different database and thus the possibility that later remove or uninstalls could mess up my libraries due to them using different databases.

So this morning I run my customary:

$ sudo dnf --refresh upgrade

Upgrade completes and I reboot (not strictly necessary perhaps, but an old habit). I then see a notification from Software Manager saying updates are ready.

Sometimes/often it is the case that this is simply an overlap, and that invoking Software manager again will refresh and show that "software is up to date". Today however, despite "clean all" and a complete refresh of the repos, followed by a restart, Software Manager is again showing updates. Clicking on it gives, for once, more explicit information. The updates are:

a patch to Firefox (Firefox was updated this morning with the dnf refresh but has not since found this patch); an update to Typing Booster, and - most problematic "OS Updates: Includes performance, stability and security improvements".

My question then is: what exactly is going on here? I was advised to stick to a single method for updates so as not to run into trouble with maintenance. According to dnf, after a complete clean and refresh, there's nothing to do, but Software manager wants to install unnamed system updates.

Is there something else I should be doing? Could I, for example, somehow simply mark everything as installed rather than mark individual packages? (this would be extraordinarily time consuming, assuming I could even find the list).

Are these sorts of basic conflict likely to continue? I understand that this is a rolling development but c'mon - conflicts between the core OS and desktop environment at this stage? Really? Would I be better off with Ubuntu or Opensuse instead? Perhaps I'm expecting too much of Fedora?

I'd like ONE, guaranteed, reliable and consistent method to ensure that things are kept orderly. I've now been running this install (number five) for about a month now with no major headaches! ;0)

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Hi, sounds like you are already using the ONE update method (dnf). As you said, Gnome Software does not combine well with it (but will be some time in the future). Just keep continue using dnf, turn off the notifications of Gnome Software, don't open it, and be a little bit patient.

Nobody can tell you if you are better off with other GNU Linuxes like Ubuntu or Opensuse, That question appears to be too subjective.

florian gravatar imageflorian ( 2016-05-17 08:55:06 -0500 )edit

Thanks. So you're saying that it's basically safe to ignore other updates, and that by never updating gnome software no major breakages or security holes are likely to occur?

There remains the question of course of why Gnome might find a further update to something like Firefox, while dnf finds nothing (and which particular 'patch' is listed as disabling the Arc Theme - come on people!)

Patience? Sure, as long as some sort of proper integration IS going to occur, rather than everyone chasing decorative features at the expense of basic functionality... the eternal debate ;0

thingummybob gravatar imagethingummybob ( 2016-05-17 09:26:31 -0500 )edit

Yes, there are no "other" updates. The two update methods mentioned here are installing the same packages from the same servers (/mirrors), they are just not synchronizing their actions (and maintaining common meta information and cache and so on).

But rest assured, you will not miss anything at all, if you just stick to dnf. Maybe the problem will be fixed with Fedora 25...or 26

Regarding your "missing" update. It is likely that you already installed it (sudo dnf history and sudo dnf history info <last-ID> to check), and Gnome Software didnt realize it yet. I had that in the past

florian gravatar imageflorian ( 2016-05-17 09:49:23 -0500 )edit

if it's of interest to you: ran dnf history but no detail in there with regard to specific libs installed.

As an example, this Firefox thing. This morning's dnf update did update FF to version 46.0.1 You tell me that there are no other updates that dnf hasn't/won't find. If I run Software Manager, it tells me:

• Added fix for rhbz#1332821 - Crash on "Select" in "Open with" dialog • Added patch for rhbz#1332875 - new Samba auth reponse • Disable dark theme until we support it correctly (mozbz#1216658)

Okay so I'm not going to install it, but none of this kind of info appears under dnf.

thingummybob gravatar imagethingummybob ( 2016-05-17 10:00:05 -0500 )edit

See my answer below in regards to FF.

As for the information of changelog, addressed patches, and bugfixes of packages that become available in the repos, when using dnf, you will have to look them up here or here, or here(F23) or for actual changelog even here in Fedora's build system Koji, e..g FF

florian gravatar imageflorian ( 2016-05-17 12:14:55 -0500 )edit

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answered 2016-05-17 10:58:33 -0500

florian gravatar image

updated 2016-05-17 15:58:43 -0500

dnf info firefox tells you what version is the most recent in the repos, and that is also what you have installed after running dnf upgrade. (Mine is currently 46.0.1-4.fc23).

Now you can compare that with the package built by Fedora's Update System (called Bodhi) here. You will see that the three patches mentioned are part of this 46.0.1 update/bugfix. Gnome Software just doesn't get it! It doesn't realize that you have this update installed already. Maybe you should file a bug against Gnome Software.

This one here may also be useful for you:

And, if you don't trust it, you can go ahead and attempt an update with Gnome Software. It will notice during update that the newest version is already installed.

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very helpful. Many thanks :0)

thingummybob gravatar imagethingummybob ( 2016-05-17 15:48:31 -0500 )edit

answered 2016-05-19 01:59:52 -0500

snuxoll gravatar image

PackageKit is an abstraction that supports multiple package managers, as such it maintains separate metadata for available updates from dnf/yum (this is why you often find available updates sooner when you run dnf upgrade, dnf exprise matadata much sooner than PackageKit).

If you see PackageKit still reporting updates after upgrading via dnf, running pkcon refresh force should get it to go away.

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Thanks - also very helpful :0)

thingummybob gravatar imagethingummybob ( 2016-05-19 11:52:37 -0500 )edit

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Asked: 2016-05-17 03:01:43 -0500

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Last updated: May 17 '16